Places And Spaces I've Been Excerpt

In this conversation
Kanye West and Pharrell Williams candidly
Explore the rewards and perils of a lifelong
Perfectionist ethic best likened to a
Child's insatiable curiosity, they impute
Their compulsive, insistent tinkering to
Much lived experience
And even to obscure neurological
Phenomena their exchange lends
Precious – and comic – insight into
A frightening capacity for invention
And a knowing approach to craft
That is at once sure
And relentlessly self-critical they spoke in
The wake of a minor
Controversy that followed the online launch
Of the single "Theraflu"
Which Kanye released through his
GOOD Music label
(in collaboration with DJ Khaled, DJ Pharris
And the producer Hit Boy) predictably
The pharmaceutical combine Novartis
Objected to
The title the track also featured
The lyric "someone tell
PETA my mink is dragging on the floor
" which drew immediate fire
From the animal-rights group

Kanye West: Yo yo, what’s good?!

Pharrell Williams: What up, killer?!

KW: Shit, chillin’
Vibin’ about changing the name of
That song and trying to
Figure out what the name of the
Song should be you know
The "Theraflu" song?

PW: yeah
KW: yeah, we’re about to give it a new name

PW: It’s getting that big – they’re
Going that crazy about it?

KW: Oh, yeah they have an issue just
The title and here’s still
A window of opportunity for us
To change it "Oh, well, i don’t want to call
It ‘Theraflu’ i’m calling
The song this…" And then people are
Like, "oh, he changed the song to this"
And then that’s
What it is, because when I did the song
I actually did not know that it would get to
The point that grandmothers are
Talking about it
You know? Like why did I give
Them that level of promotion?

PW: yeah, trust me, they’re
Thankful no matter what
They’re thankful this segues perfectly
Into what I wanted
To talk to you about which is
What is it like to be – and I know how I
Feel about it – but you’re
Definitely one of my peers, and one
That I look at and say "He gets it
But I’d love to hear his take on why
We aspire to be" It’s almost a
Disease to be a perfectionist nothing is
Ever quite good enough what
Is it like to look at
Things and say to yourself
"I know that they don’t get it
But maybe one day they will"

KW: It is so funny this is such
An example of being a perfectionist
Right? This song is out
And I’m going to change the name, like I
Want to perfect this moment some more well
I think it’s just if you’re a
Perfectionist, that’s just what you
Do you know
There are slackers there are people who are
Satisfied by delivering everything they have
– with their knowledge
Their financial situation
Their level of exposure
– to deliver the best
Product possible i respect, look up
To, and look to Walt Disney and
Steve Jobs who dedicated their time
Soul and energy to delivering
The best product that
They knew they could there’s a lot
Of psychology that goes into it what can
You give to human existence? How
Can you push the culture forward?
And when you’re a perfectionist
At a certain point you feel
A responsibility in what you put out
And what could trickle down from it if you
Put out things that are
So over-the-top and magnificent
What trickles down from it could
At least be good
Because there are more followers
Than there are leaders

PW: yeah I agree…You know what
The funny thing is that
We’ve never done it on a Kanye West album
It might be time for that

KW: yeah!

PW: It might be time for that

PW: Oh yeah! That was a very serious moment

KW: Yes!

PW: I’ll never forget going to
You and Jay’s show
And just seeing those laser
Lights you addressed all the sensations, with
The exception of smell and taste
I guess anything that you could
Control, the auditory and the visual
You curated – you made sure
That it was a curated
Moment and I’ll never forget when the first
Bars of "Gotta Have It" started playing
That minor chord it just hit's you
Anyway but it was just y’all
Talking on top of the track as
It starts to come on, and the crowd
Start going nuts! And it’s really because
At the end of the day
As great as the track is as it is and as
Great as all of the stuff you
Guys did on top of it
It was how the moment was so
Set up it was like an incredible layup
An alley
Oop do people even say that word anymore
Alley oop?

KW: yeah, it’s only ‘cause it happens
PW: yeah, you know I don’t
Know anything about basketball
But it was an amazing set-up that was crazy
Just to see the reaction
To what a visual and music could do together
And those people
Going absolutely crazy I was like
"oh, ok, well done man, well done"

KW: yeah I definitely wanted
To dial into that
Sound and mixing those textures together i
Just want to dial into that more, I
Just want to set the note
Like playing a few textures that I got for
This new shit for the GOOD music
Joint we opened up the album with this
Joint that me and Skrillex did together

PW: M-m-m-mm i like that!

KW: Just like that!

PW: Wow, i can’t wait to hear what
That sounds like i know
We are all shaped and moulded by
All that we’ve gone through
And by having spirituality –
In whatever way you
Define it – it allows us to be
Bigger than our bodies
To be bigger than our essence
There is something to be said for experience
Being told "no" the entire time
When you wanted to get into an
Industry that you love so let me ask you
How much has this experience contributed to
Who you became as a person?

KW: yeah, you know
I had to realize at what point
To put off the real
South Side Chicago mentality
That is what built me to deal with the amount
Of "no’s" and deal with the amount of
Pressure and aggression, like I talked
About on this Chicago song
"mink is draggin’ on the floor" That’s one
Of my ideas for it "Swag King Cole, mink is
Dragin’ on the floor, fo’ I embarrass you
But I don’t like to embarrass you…’I Don’t
Like To Embarrass You" as the title

PW: Anticipating PETA

KW: yeah, so…when I say "I’m
From where shorty’s fucked up
Double-cupped up might even kill
Some-body and YouTube it, so
Whoever thinks their words affect
Me is too stupid, and if
You think you can do it better than me
Then you do it"

PW: yeah, "you do it!"

PW: Right

KW: But it wasn’t cool with South
Park was using the photo and
Dissing us and everything and so many
People dress like that now
PW: yeah, that’s what we do

KW: That was before everybody said swag
Or when we were out in Japan how
Could you communicate through people? We’re
Not even understanding the language but
We knew the visual
Language, we knew the spirit
We knew the ideas
We knew the reference points

PW: yeah, that’s the thing, man that’s what
Separates us from a lot of folk
And not because we’re better but because
We’ve dedicated to listen to
That inner voice
And a lot of people don’t a lot of people
Go "man!" they do something and they
Go "shit you know what
And I’m totally not da da da da
" People fail a lot of times
Doing that whereas we just trained ourselves
To say "you know what
Let me entertain this idea" and
Exhaust all the possibilities to
Make sure that it doesn’t make
Sense because something good
May come out of that and for every time
That someone has ever told you no, you’ve
Always had that willingness to explore it um
And I’ve watched that by the way
It’s been cool to see how
Are you enjoying that

KW: - Enjoying what?

PW: I’m thinking of a way to put it…How
Are you enjoying this whole fame thing?

PW: Right!

KW: That’s right due to exposure
I’m able to have these things be
Seen by so many people if
Matthew Barney were more famous
Then more people would see
What Matthew Barney did so it’s that
When it comes down to it, what
I enjoy about it is the opportunity
To express art in high volume, literally

PW: Did you know that you’re a
Synesthete? That you have synesthesia?

KW: That’s what it’s called
That’s what the film is about! You’re
Talking about seeing sounds right?

PW: There are many different forms
Of synesthesia there are
Grapheme synethetes, people who see
Colors in numbers
Letters in colours but I believe most
Musicians and most artists are synesthetes

KW: You know that’s what this
Film in Qatar is about!

PW: Oh wow!

PW: Oh wow!

KW: yeah, the shit is dope matter of fact
If we could do work
With you on the soundtrack i mean
I’ve got eight tracks for it
I just want to give it twelve basically
It’s the GOOD Music soundtrack
That "Mercy" is the
First single for you’re like next level with
This type of shit like "Take me far away
As long as it’s fun, fun, fun
I wanna go" I’m talking to actually a
Film scorer at this point so –

PW: No! But dude…Nah man! It’s funny that
You picked that out That’s funny, wow!

KW: I play that song real normal in the car

PW: No way?!

KW: yeah!

PW: That’s crazy
That’s crazy ‘Aight well say no more
I’mma holla at you soon and
You have a good time out
There in Qatar my man!

KW: Alright, thanks! Love